IRC Log with Amiga Inc.'s Fleecy Moss

Date sent: 21 Aug 98 00:09:37 -0600
From: "Gary Peake"
Subject: IRC Log with fleecy
To: "Kevin Hisel"

This log reflects the chat Fleecy Moss had with Team*AMiGA last night on IRC.

It is 'inside only' info and is NOT to be distributed to non-amiga folks. Please don't re-distribute.

18.00.55 Join    fleecy [100] (fleecy@ppp-209208-168.netreach.net)
18.00.56 #        universaty, collage 
18.00.59 #        Cryto: I agree
18.00.59 #        aieee who turned on the purple lights
18.01.00 #        hi Asha
18.01.05 #        hi fleecy
18.01.12 #        hi defacto
18.01.12 #        fleecy: Bought time! Sheesh!  :)
18.01.13 #        yikes, I thought this was the hymen barmitzvah?
18.01.22 #        hi yoshi
18.01.23 #        'lo there Fleecy
18.01.23 #        ;-)
18.01.26 #        that's down the hall.
18.01.27 #        ooops
18.01.29 #        Fleecy!
18.01.29 #        no /msg and no /dcc guys and gals!
18.01.30 #        Wull howdy Fleecy!
18.01.30 #        fleecy: hi
18.01.32 #        re fleecy!
18.01.36 #        Asha!
18.01.37 #        asha: hello m'lady (hope ppl bugging her doesn't get
                        auto kicked :)
18.01.44 #        fleecy
18.01.44 #        Good Grief! Every man and his Amiga are here :)
18.01.46 #        hey everybody - thanks for turning up (and staying
                        up late for those of you not in the US)
18.01.47 #        and Asha too.
18.02.03 #        Fleecy : 2am is NORMAL for me :)
18.02.05 #        It's only 11AM in Australia :)
18.02.07 #        (As long as it is not the Gould bar
                        mitzvah...)
18.02.07 #        Jamesc: You'd think someone important was coming!  :)
18.02.11 #       * Yoshi grins...  03:00 local time...
18.02.11 #        Jamesc: I would like to hope the Amiga market is a
                        little bit bigger ;)
18.02.18 #        Everybody: log ON!
18.02.21 #        Hi Yoshi
18.02.24 #        Traditional dinner time here on the left
                        coast.
18.02.24 #        3 AM too in Paris... ;)
18.02.27 #        hesido: Darx has got it!
18.02.28 #        bit late due to having to get the American beer out
                        of the way and get some decent english beer from the
                        back
18.02.31 #        Cryto!
18.02.36 #        I'll have to log tomorrow
18.02.36 #        Yeah you would... Answers both questions :)o
18.02.40 #        ok, how do we play this game?
18.02.43 #        alanwall
18.02.47 #        hi all! :)
18.02.51 #        Isn't Darx Logging Dave?
18.02.54 #        'lo alanwall
18.03.00 #        yes, Darxis logging
18.03.00 #        What do you drink Fleecy ?
18.03.04 #       * Harv_ sprays gang slogans on alan's wall
18.03.13 #        ChrisP
18.03.14 #        someone get fleecy a cup of coffe
18.03.14 #        Oh weel, grab that :)
18.03.17 #        Anything that doesn't have the word "lite" on the
                        end of it!
18.03.22 #        Wish identd was working on this thing...
18.03.28 #        fleecy: Want some questions?
18.03.34 #        Anyone fired up ident on AmiTCP?
18.03.38 #        Get some Abbot Ale...put hair on your chest !
18.03.38 #        TA : why not?
18.03.48 #        I only have one...
18.03.56 #        <- has to figure out how to get identd to work
                        through Linux IP Masquerading. {^_-}
18.04.05 #        Will a 233 686 box be sufficient for the dev box?
18.04.06 #        Abbot - ahh, that, Old Pec, Bishops Finger, Burton
                        and 6X, my favourites
18.04.06 #        i thought you were going to ask us stuff fleecy  
18.04.07 #        hi sdesros
18.04.26 #        is the developer box gonna be on time?
18.04.27 #        Hello everyone.
18.04.48 #       * hesido asks when the chan will get moderated!! and before
                        that, some info on the game would do good..
18.04.48 #        And whatg is "On Time" too please )
18.05.31 #        Dave_C : OS5Dev will be written to use only a
                        certain number of PCI cards. The 233 686 should be ok
                        BUT it is the cards that will be the problem
18.05.38 #        if fleecy wants it modereated, we will
18.05.39 #        Hmmm.. Not a bad turn out... Might pop into a
                        graphical client for this :)
18.05.44 #        Something I wanted to ask in London, was third in
                        line for Havermost before he left :(
18.05.47 #        fleeecy:I have 1.I read that Joe Torres said that
                        os5 may use usb and if so that when a game console is
                        installed it would show a console screen-but only that
                        scrren.Is that correct?
18.05.51 #        got here in the end =)
18.06.03 #        'lo Eyesy
18.06.07 #        Dave_C : these questions are coming too fast

Moderation begins---

18.06.43 #        thanks _ I want to make sure everyone gets good
                        answers - If you have a question and dont' get it
                        answered here, pleae email me and I will get back to
                        you
18.06.43 #        you have a couple on the table so we'll wait.
18.06.52 #        you guys know the drill...
18.07.02 #        Dave will keep the queue, /msg dave to ask a question
                        please
18.07.08 #        /msg me with ? and I'll put you on the queue
18.07.16 #        ok, let's start
18.07.34 #        'lo Barnes
18.07.44 #        I'll explain the drill to the newcomers :)

18.07.56 #        what is the optimum for a developer box?

18.09.05 #        For OS5Dev, any x86 box will serve as a base (233+)
                        but since we intend to be on it for as short a time as
                        possible, we will only write drivers for one or two
                        cards so that will be your problem if you don't go
                        with the AInc solution.

18.09.41 #        We hope to offer a low end and a high end solution

18.09.54 #        will Joe Torre's departure affect development of the
                        new machine ?  and when can we expect to see the new
                        machine (or proper specs)

18.11.09 #        Joe's departure will affect it in as much as we'll
                        miss the little bugger. He was working closely with
                        the GW2K staff to get the dev box done but I think
                        most of the design work was done. I work from the home
                        and not the office so I don't know. The specs should
                        be out by or at Cologne.

18.11.46 #        Fleecy: Why all this paranoia with having to sign up
                        for news at the Amiga Inc. site?  Is it just a clever
                        plot to collect email addresses? :)

18.12.28 #        As for seeing it, as I explained in csa.misc, the
                        bits are coming together but we are not sure whether
                        ALL the bits will be ready by Cologne. We will show it
                        but it might not be available for sale by then. GW2K
                        are getting 3000 orders a day more than they can fill
                        so we may have to look elsewhere.
18.12.55 #        Yoshi : damm, there goes our QVC contract ;-)
18.13.13 #        As Bill explained at Sacremento, we want to stay
                        under the Radar for as long as
18.13.39 #        possible, not just for us but also for our partners,
                        who are MS partners and have no desire to be EX MS
                        partners before we have proved ourselves.
18.14.05 #        I know it seems paranoid, but many of them have been
                        bitten once too often by MS and their henchmen.

18.13.20 #        What language are we going to be using. I assume
                        'C' but will it be Gcc ? We need to spend this time
                        before the release of the Dev system learning the
                        language NOW

18.14.52 #        Languages : C++ first and foremost, then Java. We
                        are talking and the ICOA is working on a model to
                        bring more languages as quickly as possible. I hope so
                        because I HATE C++

18.15.34 #        How close are you working with the "third paryt"
                        h/w developers ? and how many 3rd ptys  are there ?

18.16.58 #        HW developers - I have spoken to Pios, DKB, P5,
                        Index and A.C.T. They are all very keen BUT they want
                        to see specs....since the MMC company is more shy than
                        a virgin at a bachelor party, this is pissing them
                        off.
18.17.35 #        As soon as the MMC company opens up, we will get
                        them in there for a first look but I don't see this
                        being until next year...another reason for the OS5Dev
                        step

18.18.09 #        Are the new MMC chips coming along on time?  Also,
                        any new info on them?  Also, what will be the new CPU?
                        Or has that not been decided yet?  Also, any
                        preliminary OS features that are gonna be in the new
                        OS?  (Resource tracking, Multi-processing/Threading,
                        etc.)

18.19.13 #        ok, the last time we spoke to the company, they were
                        on time - however, that was THEIR word - we are
                        supposed to be going up there to check on this but we
                        have to be our chopsticks first ;-)
18.19.44 #        Info on them will only become available when they
                        let us, I'm afraid. Intel would crucify them if they
                        found out.
18.20.21 #        OS features - SMP, MP, MT, VM - all the advanced OS
                        features you would expect a kernal to have.

18.21.18 #        How many major developers have actually indicated an
                        interest in the platform - enough to make the platform
                        viable once more ?  Any 'killer apps' on the horizon ?

18.21.33 #        the 'pumpkins rock ;-)
18.22.31 #        Developers - I have spoken to as many of the
                        commercial  developers as I can and they are a)
                        looking forwards to developing for OS5 b) wondering
                        how they are going to stay alive long enough to get
                        there. We have plans to help them on both accounts
18.23.03 #        non Amiga developers ;-) Oh yes, there are plenty of
                        them. Bill leaves up in Seattle and he has more lunch
                        invites than you can shake a hairy stick at

18.22.16 #        What is AI's opinion and "stance" regarding the
                        closure of CU Amiga?

18.25.04 #        I am very distressed. I talked to Tony and Andy over
                        the past two day (Bruce as well). Both wished us their
                        best. I have bought CU for 4 years and I shall miss
                        it. We are planning something special for CU's final
                        issue, so make sure you buy it.

18.25.32 #        Fleecy: exactly how many software/os people work at
                        AInc? afaik, there's only Havemose atm?

18.26.49 #        Well I am a project manager/system architect of no
                        mean repute myself. However, you are correct. Until we
                        get all our ducks in a row then we have most of our
                        staff as contractors. No one wants to live in South
                        Dakota (ask Joe!!!), including me.

18.27.13 #        Fleecy: Gary said you'd also ask question to us.  I'd
                        be interested to hear those :)
18.27.14 #        Fleecy: Besides, I don't really understand how the
                        AmigaOS5dev machine can be out before the MMC is
                        revealed, I always thought the OS5dev machine would
                        already emulate it?

18.27.54 #        Yoshi: *I* said we might get some questions from
                        fleecy...
18.28.10 #        IRC is a two way street and he MAY have some for us.

18.28.24 #        When you design a chip, you do it in SW first and
                        create emulations for it. This is WHY we have to use
                        x86, despite P5 wanting us to use PPC.

18.29.06 #        This may sound a bit negative, but I am an
                        seeing-is-believing kinda person.
18.29.07 #        You just told that the team that is designing OS5 is
                        pretty small.
18.29.09 #        Why do you think you (and your team) can create a
                        complete new OS in so little time?
18.29.09 #        I mean, BeOS for example had a lot more developers for
                        a longer time.....
18.29.10 #        And even if it could be done, why do you think it will
                        be better than other OS's

18.29.11 #        Plus you can design an OS on another platform first
                        and then port it - remember the Amiga was designed on
                        Suns first.
18.30.21 #        As a PM of some ten years experience, I can tell you
                        that small teams ARE the best - always. They maintain
                        focus and consistency in a design. Once the design is
                        completed, then you can bring more programmers in on
                        the job.
18.31.27 #        Why do I think it will be better? Because of Allan,
                        and the ppl he is bringing into this? These ppl are
                        top in their fields and once we take them on board and
                        announce them, you will see that. These are ppl who
                        want to be the next great thing and who feel stymied
                        in existing companies. They have found a home with us.
18.31.54 #        Time is a concern, as always - but we have lots of
                        Jolt.
18.32.55 #        It's phricking freezing in here, Mr Bigglesworth!

18.33.03 #         O.K. - It's going to be C++ and Java. Tell me
                        about the ICOA and other languages ! As an aside,
                        JForth has been downloaded over 700 times, things are
                        heating up - e-mail me !

18.33.23 #        Slam : send me a mail and I will tell you.

18.34.17 #        What do you see as the main selling point of OS5
                        over rival os's of the future, I mean, Linux will be
                        awesome by the time it is released (with the support
                        which is growing for it at the moment), so what will
                        it offer to make it better?

18.35.34 #        Linux is a lovely OS but that is all it is - it is
                        for techies for love editing with VI. The Digital
                        Convergence market is much, much bigger than anything
                        that exist so far but it requires an OS that ALL ppl
                        can use

18.36.04 #        yeah, er, well, what's the plan with PPC? a lot of
                        people are not buying PPCs not only because of their
                        hackish nature but also because of the announcement.
                        What do you plan on doing with it? AltiVec sounds like
                        it will be excellent, are you going to give a firm
                        announcement on what you plan on doing with it?

18.36.39 #        The same way Be started from scratch with its
                        assumptions, so we started with us - luckily for us,
                        the Amiga OS was already half way there. We are just
                        taking the next step, and moving onto faster HW.
18.38.02 #        PPC is a very nice processor family. Altivec will
                        show the world, yet again, how something should be
                        done. However, it is a standalone CPU. Add all the
                        extras you need to turn it into a computer (a la iMac)
                        and you still have a price. The MMC delivers what we
                        need, high price/performance all across the spectrum.

18.37.36 #        How aggressively has the OS5Dev machine been
                        marketed, and how aggressively do you plan to market
                        both OS5Dev and the OS5 machine in the near / far
                        future?

18.39.30 #        OS5Dev is and will be marketed back channel. Our PC
                        inflicted partners and the Amiga community will be in
                        on the  secret so that when we go public, we will give
                        the world one hell of a surprise. Ppl thing the
                        Year2000 problem refers to time, it is going to refer
                        to a new Amiga that kicks PCs all over the face of the
                        new millenium

18.38.55 #        fleecy:  How far is the OS4 dev s/w and when is it
                        estimated to go to beta ? 

18.40.29 #        OK, first, we boobed with OS4 - stupid name, stupid
                        idea. What we are doing is skipping OS4 alltogether,
                        since many ppl associate it with a PPC classic OS.
                        Instead we are calling it OS5Dev and OS5Prod.

18.40.28 #        Should we be worried about GW2K's stockmarket
                        problems ?  What would stop Bill Gates buying GW2K
                        out, and shelving all opposition to his 'evil empire'
                        ? (thanx and goodnight)

18.41.26 #        phoe: errr, nothing at the moment 8-( That is one
                        reason for looking for partners. Many partners holding
                        minority interests would give us much better
                        protection.
18.42.05 #        the DoJ might have something to say, as well, and
                        Ken Starr would probably get involved somehow ;-)

18.42.04 #        The only question I have is the same one I put to
                        everyone....  "If Amiga chooses another CPU (ppc or
                        other), why can't they just port the OS and make a new
                        68k-Datatype that would enable complete backward
                        compatibility with all exisiting software?  Thanks...

18.43.03 #        Multiview : not sure I understand here. Why would
                        you want a 68K datatype? For backwards compatibility
                        with OS3.1?

18.43.31 #        Well the big Q is ...will my software work with
                        the new OS... Ihear it all the time.

18.44.05 #        Ahh, Ok. For OS5Dev there will be a classic card -
                        it will be an Amiga on a PCI card and will give you
                        complete
18.45.08 #        compatibility - it is an Amiga after all. For
                        OS5Prod, we are not producing the machines. I presume
                        the third parties, if they see a market advantage will
                        provide compatibility, perhaps through siamese,
                        perhaps through the OS5Dev cards, perhaps through AROS
                        or UAE

18.45.31 #        Fleecy: Are there any plans to update the Amiga.com
                        website more regularly?  A site that changes every two
                        months doesn't make a very good impression on future
                        (1999) customers, IMHO.

18.46.45 #        I know - it is an eyesore and we are working on
                        doing something that will provide a great deal more
                        information. It will take a month or so to get it up
                        and running. I do apologise for this. If everything
                        had panned out the way we expected at WoA, there would
                        be a lot more news on it by now.

18.47.24 #        (a) what's up with the 4060t situation and (b) give
                        us ONE news "headline" - something NEW we can take
                        away from this.

18.48.52 #        The 4000 situation is gunged up with lawyers, screwy
                        contracts and a lot of other stuff. We are doing all
                        we can BUT it is out of our hands at the moment. WE
                        can't even get machines......
18.49.02 #        something new???

18.49.20 #        something we haven't heard over and over.
18.49.32 #        spill one (1) bean.

18.50.24 #        Clinton is innocent ;-) I'm afraid there isn't
                        anything - we are trying to give CU Amiga an exclusive
                        BUT that depends on another partner...sorry Harv, have
                        to disappoint you (again)

18.50.34 #        sigh.

18.50.48 #        My question is similar to Multiview's. If I spend
                        money purchasing a second hand A4000/060 with PPC card
                        now. Will I be able to make use of it still when the
                        new OS5Prod comes out?

18.52.06 #        Sure, it will still run all the apps that are there
                        now, and which are coming out over the next 12 months,
                        without tying up your new machine, and as with the C64
                        and Amiga 1000, it will be 6 months to a year before
                        there is a decent amount of SW out. I know I am going
                        to get a Boxer when it comes out.

18.52.33 #        fleecy: Erm... ok,  How far is the OS^5^dev s/w and
                        when is it estimated to go to beta ?

18.52.54 #        We are also planning something for the classic Amiga
                        that should make all those accelerators, cards and
                        whatnot worth their money - how about that, Harv?

18.53.16 #        I am still reeling from your plan to give a dead
                        magazine an exclusive.

18.54.14 #        OS5Dev is in progress - that's all I can say.

18.54.48 #        What does Gateway expect with amiga, will they see
                        her as an important portion of their business and
                        advertise on CNN media report etc. or do business on a
                        smaller scale, much less ambitious.

18.55.25 #        GW2k has a tightrope to walk. It NEEDS a very close
                        relationship with MS or it is screwed so it will keep
                        us at arms

18.56.01 #        length (hence the "under the radar" bit) - but we
                        can leverage off of it in private in ways that
                        Commodore could only dream of

18.55.52 #        Maybe a silly question, but: I have read that you
                        hope to have Amigas out for $500. How would you be
                        able to manage to sell a product like this at such a
                        low low price? (and do you mean just the motherboard
                        for $500 or HD, CD, Monitor etc..). How can GW be
                        willing to fund such a high risk project at such low
                        profit margins, are they planning on dumping the PC
                        for the SuperAmiga?

18.57.12 #        Have you looked at the Dreamcast specs and price,
                        the Project X? HW technology is coming together, and
                        the MMC adds several new twists to it. Will GW2k
                        abandon PCs - not until we have proved we make them
                        redundant ;-)

18.57.28 #        2 more and then I must go - sorry 8-(

18.57.46 #        The iMac has sold (I believe) 150,000+ since it's
                        launch. How confident are you of similar early sales
                        figures for OS5Dev/OS5Prod?

18.59.18 #        OS5Dev is a developer machine - we will be delighted
                        if users buy it but we see it as a seed. OS5Prod is a
                        different matter. It will be sold hidden in products
                        and out in the open. The launch and marketing strategy
                        is still being worked out with the partners, but is
                        should make the iMac one look like a christmas party
                        at an old ppl's home

18.59.35 #        any plans for a laptop Amiga? and will ARexx still
                        be part of future AmigaOS's? (updated maybe?)

19.00.52 #        As I said before, the MMC can work perfectly well in
                        a laptop if Pios or P5 or someone wants to make one
                        then it will be fine with us. Arexx? Allan likes it, I
                        like it.

-- Moderated Q&A ends --

19.01.04 #       * Dave_C thanks all who submitted questions and thanks fleecy
                        for giving us his time.

19.01.37 #        Ok, got to go - thanks everyone - if your questions
                        went unanswered, please email me. Thanks to Dave, Gary
                        and TA for all this....and kisses to Asha, the first
                        lady of the Amiga
19.01.43 #        ....and Joanne of course ;-)

Gary Peake
Press Officer
Industry Council Open Amiga


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